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Or in other words, to what end is Science striving for?
At first glance this question might seem somewhat obvious, but as you sort through your own mental structures you will see that the question probes deeper than we originally thought.
Science is the tool, but what are we trying to make with it? (This last question is mainly metaphorical)
At first glance this question might seem somewhat obvious, but as you sort through your own mental structures you will see that the question probes deeper than we originally thought.
Science is the tool, but what are we trying to make with it? (This last question is mainly metaphorical)
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Unsu...
Re: What is the goal of Science?
Wed, December 28, 2005 - 12:42 PMScience is the tool by which we seek naturalistic explanations for phenomena.
Science doesn't have goals. Scientists have goals.
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Re: What is the goal of Science?
Wed, December 28, 2005 - 1:58 PMBut what is the purpose of having such naturalistic explanations for phenomena. Why do we want them, what will we do with them. Where are all these discoveries leading us? Let me offer some potential scenerios of where branches of Science could lead us to help illustrate the purpose of my original question:
Genetics->Genetic Engineering->Life Extension->Immortality
Computer Science->Weak AI-> Strong AI-> "Globe Encompassing Superbrain"
Physics->Quantum theory of Gravitation->Theory of Everything
Astronomy->Identification of Earth-like Planets->Space travel->Colonization of Space
My question is intended to probe deeper than the surface answer of "we are seeking natural explanations of phenomena." Why, because that answer is already known to practically everyone.
What are the deeper goals of Science (Scientists)? Immortality? Increased Quality of Life? Increased Intelligence? Colonizing Space? Environmental Equilibrium? Transcendence of Biology? or are we merely interested in explaining our observations of the natural world? -
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Unsu...
Re: What is the goal of Science?
Wed, December 28, 2005 - 2:02 PMBecause we like to know stuff. Some of us like to know how things Actually tick, as opposed to just making up feel good explanations or superstitious nonsense.
That's the purpose.
Looks like you have your own idea of where certain sciences will lead,.
You are trying to religiousize science.
There are no deeper goals for science, because science is merely a method. Scientists have goals. Usually that goal is to increase knowledge, sometimes to better mankind's situation, but these are subjective and can't be extrapolated to claim anything about the "goals of science" other than what I gave you or what's in the dictionary.
Science's fuction is best described, of what you mentioned by "or are we merely interested in explaining our observations of the natural world? "
Yes, that one. -
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Re: What is the goal of Science?
Wed, December 28, 2005 - 4:39 PMActually, a simple "explanation" of observations sounds more religiousizzling than an interest in function and tools. Things that "matter". There's plenty of explanations of how then world works using various symbols, but that to me seems to be more the thing of religion.
My understanding of scientists goals for using the tool of science has typically been "think of what we could Do with this knowledge!" People don't usually study disease or technology without some sort of goal of improving life. There may be other goals, such as fame, historical significance, or monetary gains, but those are still goals. Knowledge typically relates to power or mastery over environment and such.
Mere "explanation of the natural world" I think would seem to have more of a religious slant. -
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Re: What is the goal of Science?
Wed, December 28, 2005 - 8:14 PMThere's no goal. It is a method!
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Unsu...
Re: What is the goal of Science?
Thu, December 29, 2005 - 6:18 AMGosh, that's why I didn't say science was the simple explanation of observations. I do believe I mentioned NATURAL somewhere.
"explanation of the natural world"
NATURAL. Not SUPERNATURAL.
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Re: What is the goal of Science?
Wed, December 28, 2005 - 9:53 PMjason, you and i have had our differences in this area before, as you know. you subscribe to a notion of extropian rapture, science as a means to somehow transcend the limits of humanity and become one or actually become god, that is unfounded by the scientific method itself. evolution does not have a goal; science does not have a goal. i perceive your position as being uncomfortable with individuation and with goallessness.
for example, a theory of everything is the building of a mathematical construct which accurately describes and predicts the behavior of the universe, from the subatomic to the macroscopic. the fundamental mystery of the fact of the universe remains. your notions of the directedness of science feels almost like a battle cry to conquer the universe cognitively, to become one with it via theory and technology, whereas coexistence and diversification without direction do me just fine. you often speak as if you think science and evolution are leading us back to a unity and light that i personally i believe... to already be present. -
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Re: What is the goal of Science?
Thu, December 29, 2005 - 8:43 AMThe more I think about the question, the less I'm thinking there is a "one goal" of science... It would seem to me that there are actually a few different things that science is and has been "used" for that aren't necessarily the same.
The mere Assemblage of Facts and Knowledge is definitely the main goal of some. I'm not sure that if we were suddenly handed a huge database of all the facts of the universe, from some sort of gods or aliens or whatever, that it would be very interesting in and of itself. It seems that the actual hunt and discovery of the knowledge would be some of the novelty that keeps people searching.
Another 'goal' would be the Prediction of Future Events. I think it would go hand in hand with the gathering of knowledge, since the more you know how things currently happen, the more you can predict what will happen next.
From there would be the Control Over Environment 'goal'. The more knowledge, the more prediction, the more you can control future events. This includes pursuit of technology, health care, longevity, etc.
Then there's the Explanation 'goal', which would seem to also include knowledge and prediction, but could be considered a "goal" in and of itself. But what is the difference between somebody who has a "naturalistic explanation" of the universe, and somebody that uses a more religious symbolism for the same purpose?
Currently it seems that the explanation goal and the control/technology goal are the main driving forces of science, but i'm sure they are all pretty intertwined.
So, I dunno... Maybe "goal" isn't exactly what the original post was hoping for? Evolution may not have a "goal" but it does have a direction. Is a better question "where can science take us in the future"? And what happens if we do ever "somehow transcend the limits of humanity and become one or actually become god"?
I think Star Trek dealt with this issue with the 'Omnipotent Q'. It didn't seem pretty.
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Re: What is the goal of Science?
Wed, December 28, 2005 - 12:56 PMWith the risk of working Jean into another huff, I have my own view of it.
Science is one of many means people choose to use in order to gain understanding. There are many others, like faith, gut feeling, etc. None of these “tools” are necessarily any better than any others, as they all have the chance of leading someone to an inaccurate conclusion. It’s like fishing with different kinds of baits; they all might help you catch fish, but some might work faster than others to attract certain fish, some might have more or less of a chance of harming or contaminating the fish, some might help you catch a fish you weren’t looking to catch, some might work in more or less humane ways of helping to catch the fish, etc. No one way is the “right” way, or the “better” way, or the “more efficient” way, overall.
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Re: What is the goal of Science?
Thu, December 29, 2005 - 6:51 AM>>"Or in other words, to what end is Science striving for?"<<
I think knowledge itself is the goal. In my estimation, the scientific method is the only way we can begin to understand the world. Understanding the world, gaining knowledge does not require any goal or end. It is an end in and of itself. For me, learning more about the world is the only reason to live, nothing else is interesting. I have sometimes wondered, if everything about the universe was understood, would there be any reason to live? Of course, no need to worry, we are a long, long way from there. -
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Unsu...
Re: What is the goal of Science?
Thu, December 29, 2005 - 6:55 AMto fully understand something would include being that thing. We'll probably understand the universe completely when it blows up and takes us with it. -
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Re: What is the goal of Science?
Thu, December 29, 2005 - 7:09 AM>>"to fully understand something would include being that thing"<<
This is an interesting thought. I am not sure I fully agree with it, but there is certainly some truth to it. If we could simulate every aspect of the universe so completely that all behavior and outcomes could be accurately predicted (within the limits of quantum uncertainty, of course) would you consider this "full understqnding".? -
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Unsu...
Re: What is the goal of Science?
Thu, December 29, 2005 - 7:12 AMMe? No. Thats because I include aspects over time as part of understanding. When time "ends", then there is a chance of knowing everything, but of course there would be one glaring problem. There wouldn't be any time to go back and learn. -
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Re: What is the goal of Science?
Thu, December 29, 2005 - 8:17 AMI appreciate the replies and I guess I should say thanks for the many attempts to, err, "correct" my inquiring mind, but I feel like many of you are really missing the nature of my question. Instead of trying to prove your IQ by pointing out where I am wrong in asking such a question, try and humor me and yourselves into looking 250 years down the line.
Jeff, I recall you saying from one of our previous discussions that people have purposes not evolution. Well, if I'm not mistaken isn't the body of Science made up of people. Therefore there is surely a purpose or end result after which Science is being used by people. Right? If I'm wrong, let me know.
Here's some of the answers so far suggested, lets see if we can work with these and develop a more precise and accurate interpretation.
-Science is aimed at finding explanations for natural phenomena.
-Science doesn't have a goal, Scientists do.
-Science has no goals. It's a METHOD.
-Science is a way to gain understanding.
-The goal of Science is Knowledge itself, nothing more.
-Science is a tool that people use to achieve their personal goals, be it knowledge, fame, monetary reward, etc.
-Science is our door to extropian rapture. (An answer that was projected onto me, but none the less brought into the discussion)
So if we cut out all the fluff, the major theme seems to be: Science is a Method/Tool used by Scientists to gain Understanding/Knowledge about the Universe/Natural World.
My question now becomes, why is it important to gain or acquire knowledge/understanding? Why is it the only thing some people live for? What about experience, what good does complete knowledge of the universe do you if you haven't seen a sun rise, or felt the cool breeze of the ocean.
Couldn't expanding the reach of our experience be just as valid a goal? What lies underneath our desire for knowledge/understanding?
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Unsu...
Re: What is the goal of Science?
Thu, December 29, 2005 - 8:31 AM"Therefore there is surely a purpose or end result after which Science is being used by people. Right? If I'm wrong, let me know. "
But that's not what you asked.
"lets see if we can work with these and develop a more precise and accurate interpretation."
Do you mean one more agreeable to your way of thinking?
"why is it important to gain or acquire knowledge/understanding?"
To whom? You are looking for a "big picture" answer to a subjective question. Some people DON'T think it's important. Some do. Some do for reasons of wealth and power. Some for philanthropy. Some for a mixture of both.
What you're doing is like asking a whole group of people to answer yes or no to whether people like cake.
"Couldn't expanding the reach of our experience be just as valid a goal?"
It sure is. Everything is subjectively valid.
However, and I know this will disappoint some people, your experiences are limited by your humanity. Like it or not, there is no way to "transcend" your humanity in an objectively valid way.
"What lies underneath our desire for knowledge/understanding? "
A juicy cherry filling. -
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Unsu...
Re: What is the goal of Science?
Thu, December 29, 2005 - 9:37 AMHere, I guess you were looking for this:
Gosh Jason! The goal of science is to broaden the human experience through a bunch of meditation and mind expanding exercises! Because the universe is there for you man! You can totally SEE it and BE it! -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: What is the goal of Science?
Thu, December 29, 2005 - 12:23 PMTo conquer mystery -- it is definitely more than merely a method. It is a way of looking and trying to understand. It is a form of faith that we can understand the world we live in.
alas, to quote some dumb poster, the larger the island of knowledge, the longer the shoreline of wonder.
<<<<<<<<< sorry for that one >>>>>>>>>>>>
*GASP* -
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Unsu...
Re: What is the goal of Science?
Thu, December 29, 2005 - 12:30 PM"It is a way of looking and trying.."
And that is not a method how?
"It is a form of faith that we can understand the world we live in. "
No, it isn't.
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Re: What is the goal of Science?
Thu, December 29, 2005 - 4:32 PM>>"sigh"<<
Welcome to my world, Jason. Make yourself comfortable. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: What is the goal of Science?
Thu, December 29, 2005 - 9:26 PMwell, there is of course applied science, where the scientific method is used for purposes of making money or accomplishing some needed task. that certainly accounts for a fair amount of scientific activity. there is also scientific research that is intended to broaden our predictive and utilitarian knowledge of the universe, either as future applied science or simply as a broadened understanding.
i suppose partially you're asking what motivates scientists to do science. the answer would vary. but jean in another thread was right in pointing out that our early ancestors probably utilized a proto-scientific method to solve problems related to survival. a practical curiosity to better our lives. i think that still motivates scientists today.
but science itself really is just a set of methods, based on logical empiricism, for discerning patterns in experience. what we do with those patterns varies. -
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Unsu...
Re: What is the goal of Science?
Fri, December 30, 2005 - 7:48 AMnot to mention that such a desire to explore and experiment was a beneficial trait that was solidified due to evolution. Those organisms without such a desire probably just sat in place and died moments after forming.
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Re: What is the goal of Science?
Thu, December 29, 2005 - 2:01 PM>>"What lies underneath our desire for knowledge/understanding?"<<
A large, under-used resource, bulging with curiousity- our brains. The curiousity part is what allows us to learn, understand and, eventually master our environment. The adaptive aspect of curiousity is what lies underneath our having it, allowing us to thrive in many complex environments and unforseen circumstances, but it has no specific purpose- itr simply drives us to constantly explore and learn, preparing us for anything that might occur. Many animals have this same trait to some degree or another. If you open a door to a room where a cat has never been, the cat will immediately go in and explore the room. We are not that much different than the cat, except that we have the ability to explore rooms that we cannot even see.
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Re: What is the goal of Science?
Sun, January 1, 2006 - 11:55 AMScience is the tool through which we create and refine many other tools. What we do with our tools is decided by each craftsman.